It seems that Mr. Feinberg and Ms. Eberle are at odds - If the Township held up their end of the bargain as Mr. Feinberg states, then why wasn't the application for open space ever made. As stated above, the agreement with the school district was that the township would apply for the open space monies - and even if the county rep told Ms. Eberle that the request might have been denied, there is no way to know for sure until you apply!
The second thing I'd like to point out is that the sale price of Leary, Longstreth, and Stackpole was addressed in a blog by Dr. Cressman on the District website http://www.centennialsd.org/site/default.aspx?PageType=3&ModuleInstanceID=2028&ViewID=97313D1D-A9CF-4646-A5A5-0C355FBAC071&RenderLoc=0&FlexDataID=7150&PageID=108, and as far as I can tell if the WREC building is in as bad a shape as the township says, the district will not get much money out of that property should they agree to reclaim the property. I'm not saying that the district has done everything it needed to, but it sounds to me like the township wants to blame the district for everything and not accept any of their fault in what is now their problem.

The WREC has been sustained in the past due to subsidizing the cost of maintenance and programs with tenants which have been stolen by the School Board. Maintenance performed were minimal band-aids due to the fear caused by the reversionary clause in which the School District can take back the building whenever they want. I may also add the School District has no interest in removing the reversionary clauses or deed restrictions.
Finally, townhouses are not permitted in the R2 residential zoning district which this land is made up of so that fear will not manifest into reality. This is not solely a Township created problem. I would actually say that the root of this problem really originates with the School District who seems unwilling to negotiate. Mr. Feinberg asked some very good rhetorical questions about how a publicly elected board such as the School District can sign a resolution in a public meeting and then reneg on it afterwards.
As taxpayers in Warminster, we are all being screwed by the 9 headed snake which is the Centennial School District Board. At the end of the day, the WREC can not be sustained due to CSD Board Members' decisions. Well now they can have it back...

Pete must be friends w/ the board of supervisors.

Pete Krenshaw, as you have stated you have been following this situation very closely.Well I think you need to look further. Frank Feinberg was Chairman of the Board of Supervisors when the sale of the WREC center was approved. To be exact it was June 25, 2009. Leo Quinn made the motion, 2nd by Fred Gold, Gail Johnson, Ellen Jarvis, Frank Feinberg all voted YES.$727,858.00 Open Space Money and $272,142.00 waiver of Schools Contruction Fees. As you know the Township never applied for the Open Space monies. Reference Township Minutes. Frank Feinberg has a short memory of what he voted for!!

Wow Pete, that is even worse! Do I understand this correctly that Township Supervisors signed the WREC agreement in 2009 knowing full well that not only were they not going to apply for open space funding, but that they knew full well that they were not eligible for it? Sounds like Township officials are guilty of fraud.

What was the date of this meeting? I 'd rather read the minutes myself and not from people who post on Internet forums.

"post information" on Internet forums.

Pete, should we suggest that the Supervisors contact Ivyland for help? In less than one year Ivyland figured out their open space eligibility, made an offer on Dorothy Henry they could afford, and bought the building.

http://www.buckscounty.org/news/2012/2012-06-20-CommissionersMeeting.aspx

If I am correct one of the reasons that the open space money was not formally requested was because there was a appraisal need on the property and the appraisal came in for less than the $1 M. If the appraisal had come in for $1 M it would have been filed and then rejected because of the deed restriction related to the open space.
The REAL problem here is not the rec center but the Program that the Rec operates. I think there should be a plan to move the programs before making them Homeless

The problem is with the School Board who promised to work with the township on the Problem and then reneged on the issue after they got their waiver of fees.
I have watched this turn into a fight against a supervisor or supervisors when they were the victimes of some really bad moves by the school board.
Has anyone noticed all of the manipulations of these townships as they built monuments to their ineptness in fair dealing with the taxpayers?

So now what happens?? Will the WREC operations continue or is the WREC closing as a whole? What happens to the day care and the camps that are held there?

Mr. Manfredi said that they are trying to locate OTHER places for meeting, programs and such to take place. Someone suggested Ben Wilson or the Library. I have a hard time believing they will find a place for community groups that can accommodate all of them. Can't quite picture Dog Obedience classes or karate in the library. The tenants of the building such as day care will have to move by the end of December. As of right now the camps have no home.
All the classes, all the meetings, all the sports will have to find somewhere else to go!
It's a sad, sad day when a WREC building closes and leaves no home for the community to meet or attend programs! It angers me that the ones getting shafted yet again are the kids of Warminster!
The supervisors did mention something about buying modular buildings to put at Warminster Community park. What I want to know is how many kids can get to Warminster Park without being driven? Nobody wants their kids walking or riding a bike across Street Rd.! Where will the kids be allowed access to play basketball? Where will sports classes be allowed?
I am just sick that a township this large with such high taxes has no recreation center for the children of this community.

The Library has a large Community Room where classes can be held, that is my understanding. In fact, prior to the WREC building, many community groups held their meetings, classes, etc., in the library meeting room. Iam sure parents will find a way for their children to get to WCP, after all, Warminster Township has many neighborhoods and parents from the East end, south end and north end found ways to get their children to the WREC. The WREC is just not for that neighborhoods children. I am sure that the Supervisors, Township Manager and WREC managers are working hard to ensure most programs are not cancelled. Been following this saga for a few years, the Supervisors & WREC managers did all they could while the School Board did nothing but be deceitful, which is no surprise. Children are the last thing the CSB cares about, witness the school upheavals, bus problems, over spending, etc.

The camps are not just held at the WREC buiding - Parks and Rec also use the schools to hold thier camp programs. Has anyone asked if the district has ever charged them for it? I am pretty sure the School District allows the P&R program to use their buildigns in the summer for free.

Only been in the building once, but thought it was a cool re-purposing of the building. Wonder why more couldn't have been done to make it viable.

On any given night there are more than a handful of groups or classes that take place at the WREC. One meeting room at the library will not fit all of them. How many classes, how many programs, how many community groups will just have to disband?
No the WREC isn't just for that neighborhoods children but having a WREC where NO CHILDREN can get to without a ride isn't very sensible either.
Where will the WREC office be come December? There wasn't an answer for that either.
I'm not sure the township, the school board and some residents realize just how important that WREC center and all it's programs are to the community. I'm not sure some realize just how many kids and adults depend on those programs.

The lack of distrust of the school district is evident to me in conversations I've had with families of young children. I spoke with at least three families yesterday at a party that all intend to leave Warminster in the next two years for two main reason. Safety related to the Bucks Landing area and the school district. You can count me in addition to the three families.

I do not mean to sound rude, but WCP is in an area where children in the surrounding neighborhoods can get to with no ride and without crossing Street Road. As stated previously, there are more neighborhoods in Warminster than just the one surrounding Little Lane.

It is sad that all this has happened and that some seem surprised. The School Board and District have been running roughshod over the Township and taxpayers for years and most obviously have not been paying attention. Shame that it is now too late for the wake-up call. The Supervisors have been discussing the WREC for a few years. I think that there was a meeting last summer at the WREC for residents regarding the closing of the various schools and possibly the WREC too. From what I have observed, the Supervisors and Township have operated on good faith with the CSB and they have been fooled time and again. The lies that eminate from CSB are countless, not just regarding the WREC but also about the cost of renovations, building new schools, etc. They are a runaway train and no one can stop them. Very sad families are going to move out because of the CSB. What was once a wonderful school district has turned into a fiasco with the children/students put last.

It's true that the Centennial School District is at a crossroads and is undergoing a major transformation not yet seen around here. The district is a good one and Bucks Landing has been a problem for decades. If parents want to move, then move, but don't blame it on the schools or one bad neighborhood in the township. Bucks Landing was here way before most current township residents. "Ashwood Apartments" was it's former name way back and it wasn't much different then!

Joe, you have a great point. I did not grow up in Bucks County. When my wife and I bought our home we loved the neighborhood and proximity to Longstreth. Now we won't have any park or school within safe walking distance with Longstreth gone. I knew nothing about Bucks Landing before buying. This area isn't anywhere near as bad as where I grew up (Upper Darby). But I also see the writing on the wall with CSB's actions. I was at the public joint meeting with the Supervisors and CSB. I spoke about my desire to keep part of Longstreth as a community park. I also was pulled aside by a former CSB member from a long time ago. He warned me about how deceitful the current board is and that something must be done.

Pete,
I'm not sure what you are talking about by saying some politicians will say anything to get elected. Are you kidding me ? The job of Supervisor pays $4,300 (before taxes) a year with no benefits. Further, I and my fellow Supervisors pay our own way at the dozen or so community / charitable events we attend (costing us each about $1,000 each). So why should we want to "get elected" other than serve our town and our neighbors. I have lived in Warminster for 40 years and have a strong desire (as do my fellow Supervisors) to keep it going and improving when ever possible. This is not like Congress where they are well paid, with great benefits and retirement. We get little more than our own satisfaction and an word of praise.

Have a good evening.

Frank Feinberg

"As you know the deal fell through when the County didn't give us the $728,000 for open space, As you can see I have an excellent memory" states Frank Feinberg. Well Frank, the County didn't give us the $728,000. because you never applied for Open Space money. That fact came out just recently by the new Township Solicitor Mary Erberle. You turned down two schools that were sold to a developer and you have a $1,000.000 in a reserve fund for Park & Rec. You lived rent free in the Wrec for 24 years and rented space to other businesses and received income. Now you are telling us you moving from the Wrec cause it is falling apart and you will look for space for programs. Well this is not acceptable to us residents, we want space for the programs for our children. Programs for our children should have been planned before this mess was decided.

Wasn't there supposed to be a community park behind Flower Mill? A walking trail of some sort was supposed to be established after all those lovely homes were constructed off Delmont Ave. Where is it?
Now that the WREC, Leary, Longstreth will all be gone where are kids going to play who live in those communities or is caring about kids a thing of the past? Those open spaces gave kids opportunities to have good clean fun like manhunt, a quick pick up game of basketball, a baseball game, kick ball and so on. Now they'll have to play in the streets!

Pete or P.Krenshaw in your post of Tuesday 11:28pm you stated that the Wrec closing has been in the works for over a year. OK, then why are they looking for space for programs now? Why wasn't this done a year ago? Poor planning! I am concerned about programs for children, that is my concern. I do not care who is blaming who for this mess, all I want is the children being able to have programs!! My children go to these programs and enjoy themselves along with a lot of other children. Wrap this up and get space and keep these programs.

P. Krenshaw, "Manfredi pledged to concerned resisdents that space for the Parks and Recreation Department's programs would be acquired. He cited the library and Ben Wilson Senior Center as possible locations and said more options are under consideration." A direct quote from the article above. It is poor planning to consider closing the Wrec and be looking for space for programs. It is called Long Range Planning which the Township has not done. Stop playing politics with our children and their programs.

Sarah - wrong again; read my post of Aug. 28. This is my last post on this subject. If you want your questions answered completley come to a Supervisors meeting and talk to us. Next meeting Sept. 20th.

Take care,
Frank Feinberg

"Pete Krenshaw" that is funny. Someone who is hiding behind a fictitious name is complaining that another person is an imposter (hiding behind your fictitious name).

Sarah going to a meeting will not tell you what you ultimately want to know. You want to know where all the programs of this community will be able to go as do many parents and community members. Countless people went to the last meeting to voice their opinion about wanting places for the programs and they were left with no answers.
After watching the last supervisors meeting I am convinced that they have no idea where these programs will end up! They suggested Ben Wilson and the Library. I wonder if they even know how many programs the WREC allowed to meet there on any given night. There are far more programs than 2!
I believe they are scrambling to find something to tell the community because they have no idea where the programs will go!
That should have been thought out long ago before making the decision to close the WREC's doors to the kids!
I can't imagine the library being a good place for karate class or dog training classes. I can't imagine kids being allowed to play basketball in Ben Wilson or the library either.
I wonder if they will open the township building meeting rooms for Boys Scouts, Girl Scouts, zumba, karate and so on. I doubt it!
This is a community filled with kids and young adults yet we will have no meeting place for them at all.

Mr. Krenshaw most programs were not free. We all paid our own way. It's about a sense of community not business! I chose to raise my family in Warminster because it felt like a nice neighborhood community not a big business community. Now that sense of community has decreased rapidly over the last 15 years. The smaller schools are gone since someone thought we needed mega schools. The WREC will be gone and some of us care. Now I don't know what your real estate and school taxes look like but mine have soared over the years. I pay the highest amount out of most my neighbors and I don't live in a mansion so yes I expect my roads to be drivable and my trash collected...I pay for it!
I resent you assuming that anyone pays my way for anything. My husband and I are hard working, community serving adults and no one pays our way for anything! There is no gravy train in my life!
Kids are important to most of us. They are the future of our community and if you don't care about them now then please don't care about what they do when one day you need them as adults! Yes Mr. Krenshaw...one day these kids will be the ones taking care of you!
Kids need a place where it is okay to hang out and have fun. The WREC is a huge asset to the community and the people who live here and offers dozens of classes and activities to all ages! Not only children count on it but many, many adults!

Isn't it high time we put one and one together and get two, without all the political sniping? The fact is, the reason the WREC center deal with the CSB fell through is that P&R director Karen Whitney did not want it to happen. She expressed that at the joint CSB-twp meeting that I also attended. She did not want to leave Hart for Leary because then her vaunted Master Plan for P&R that has been in the works for more than a decade would have a monkey wrench thrown in it.

Harken back many years ago ... 8 or so? ... Twp Supervisor now-chair Leo Quinn was on the P&R Board. They tried to ramrod a multi-million dollar ($10m? $15m?) referendum for parks upgrades. it was soundly and wisely defeated, crushing the Quinn/Whitney dreams of Taj Mahal P&R. Whitney and her community advisory committee crushed the CSB-Twp deal because it would not be a stop-gap solution but instead it would derail her Master Plan.

Further, it is Whitney who was to have written and submitted the Open Space application for the Spvsr sign off. But again, acquiring Hart is not what SHE feels is best. She and Quinn want a building in WCP. And they want to force the taxpayers to pay for it! Taxpayers as a whole (like me) support PASSIVE recreation and open space. Shutting Hart building is a ploy to raise the community outcry and taxes to build in WCP. DO NOT STAND FOR IT! No more P&R tail wagging the Taxpayer Dog. See the big picture, people, including you Krenshaw (aka Tom Panzer!).

Just an observation....the area from Valley Rd to York Rd. and Street to County Line has ZERO open space for families to enjoy. Every other quadrant of Warminster has some place that is open to play or enjoy. Why is that?

Thank you Mr. Krenshaw. You're right ..Mr. Ellis is talking about the other side of Street Rd. As for the walking trail behind Shepard's Crossing I have not heard of a meeting about it and as far as I know neighbors have not be informed.
Thankfully the kids in this area are far too respectful than to ever play in the cemetery. The grass in front of Ben Wilson is not for playing as you stated Mr. Krenshaw...it is exactly what you said...a water basin!
I'd be interested too Mr. Ellis ..where is the park on Norristown Rd that you speak about? I've lived here a long time and I've never seen it!

As for the open space area between Norristown and Delmont, a meeting was held and all residents in that area received notification and most attended. A follow up survey was also given to the neighbors. From what I heard at the meeting, most residents did not want a play area, but agreed to a walking path. Not sure but most likely, Ms. Whitney and her staff have been focusing on the closure of the WREC and lining up where programs will be held & attention to the smaller pocket park has been put on the back burner.
As for the Bond issue, what a shame that so many of the senior population worked so hard at its defeat. I was there, I watched and was mystified by their actions. If it had to do with The Ben Wilson building, it would have been a different outcome. Since the Township owns the senior center, perhaps they should take half of it to use for the programs from the WREC.
To whomever posted about Mr. Quinn and Ms. Whitney misleading the public, hogwash! From the day the property was given over to Warminster, the community was asked numerous times for input in what they would like to see happen for WCP. Many who knew how Hart School was 'loaned' to the Township by the school district realized a central building at WCP would be terrific in the future. 10+years, the future is now here. Why is it wrong that not only Mr. Quinn, Ms. Whitney and others envisioned a township owned building for all, on WCP's grounds?

i just loved how the SB would only sell Leary for $1M to the township, but they sell it to a developer for $425K....They won't lower the price on the "clause" for the WREC, and they won't lend space in these "mega" schools. Sneaky little snakes they are. I would prefer that the SD not get 75% of every tax dollar and that they only get 50%. Our township should get the 25% and then maybe we would not have to worry OUR WREC closing.

Honest Mom, you are mistaken. Most of those residents that opposed the tot lot are not living in the new homes built by Christ Home. I am one of them and the tot lot was proposed to be directly behind my home, which is 57 years old, hardly brand new in my eyes. Yes, a tot lot is a great idea, but did you think of what would happen at night? Vandalism, teenagers hanging out, drinking, burning it down, all directly behind my back yard. Yes, it will happen. It has happened to many of the smaller parks in Warminster and even the WCP park. Sorry, but I do not want that in my backyard. I was not happy when Christ home built those homes, but I was fortunate that the Park and Rec were able to purchase the small piece of land that is behind my house. As far as people being notified, they were through a mailing done by the Park and Rec. I am not sure where you live, but many of my neighbors were at the meeting. There were people from as far over as Wellington in my neighborhood and also people from the other side of Norristown, so I don't believe that was just a select few. The people from Christ Home actually were very respectful and did not say much at the meeting. I am sure they knew how upset our neighborhood was when their homes were built. I believe they were there just to get information as to what was happening with the land.

As for poor planning by the Park and Rec for the programs, what exactly were they supposed to do? How could they plan when they weren't even sure what they were planning for? The didn't know if they were staying at the WREC or not and all communication with the school board had been stopped (by the school board itself), so they were completely in the dark as to what was going to happen. I know the staff at the WREC are not happy about this happening, but they are doing their best to continue what programs they can. They are thinking of the children in our township, unlike the school board who has a continued history of lacking in that area. I, for one, am extremely sad that the WREC is closing because my children have taken part in many of the programs over there, but hopefully those programs will continue.

Mr. Krenshaw, we did ask that to happen if they were going to put a tot lot. They said that it could be an option. It also made a little more sense because they would be able to put a very small parking lot off of Norristown then also. For the most part, I think my neighbors were very open to the walking path because the Park and Rec said that there would also be a buffer of trees and bushes put in so that it was not directly behind our homes. I think one of the problems with the tot lot, besides the vandalism and lack of access for the emergency services, was the noise level. I know after living here for 8 years, having a quiet space behind my house is wonderful and many of my neighbors have been here 30 plus years and didn't want that to change much. We were hoping for just more of a passive park with the walking path, benches, trees and bushes. I think after the WREC closing, this little park has definetly been bumped down on the list, as it should be. I much prefer them concentrating on what they are going to do come January.

I agree with you for the need of the open space with the WREC closing. I know alot of my neighbors utilize it now also. Playing football, baseball, etc. In fact, a softball team for Warminster practiced there every week in the spring due to lack of fields. I just remembered that there also another issue with the land. There is protected wetlands that they need to work around to connect Norristown to the larger area behind our homes. I'm not exactly clear on all of that, I just know there is one specific area that is protected and then another area that evidently is constantly damp. Hopefully whatever is put there will be an added bonus to the neighborhood and entire community.

Perhaps Honest Mom instead of suggesting those opposed to a tot lot "Should move to a farm", she should have purchased a home near a tot lot and park. It is odd to me how people can sit and complain but NEVER showed up to one P & R meeting or Township meeting while this has been discussed for over three years. Always a critic, never constructive. Also odd how someone who supposedly lives within the vicinity of the open space did not receive a notice when in fact all those who would be impacted were along with neighboring streets. The few residents of Christ Home who attended the meeting were respectful of the neighboring residents and did not voice concern either way. There are other area's of Warminster that do not have tot lots. In fact, until NAWC was turned into WCP there was no park in the neigborhoods from Davisville Road to Jacksonville Road which comprises a large area and having lived in the area many years, do not recall any residents complaining about not having a park like other area's. Most bought their homes because they had rear yards for their children and neighbors children to play in. Perhaps instead of bickering, those that are unhappy should attend meetings so they are aware of what is happening in the Township and not receive information second or third hand.

BTW I don't care if it's a tot lot, a playground, open space or a basketball court...I just think our kids deserve and need something in our section of the township not a walking trail! Again I would have gladly have attended the meeting if I had been notified like the people who attended.
I suggested those that want to live in solitude since they are worried about the noise level might like a farm better:) No neighbors...no noise:)

Yes, that's exactly what I said about not liking kids laughing and playing, I especially hate hearing my own. Seriously, don't put words in my mouth and call me sad. I find it sad that because someone has an opinion other than your own that you feel it okay to attack that person. And, sorry, I live in the real world where there has been vandalism in the parks. If you don't believe me, talk to the Park and Rec people, or the police chief for that matter. I do have faith in the kids in our neighborhood, which yes I do know many of them considering my children play and are friends with them (again, you put words in my mouth, seems to be a pattern), but it's not those kids that are the vandals. I'm talking about the kids who do go to these parks and playgrounds and destroy them viciously. As for living on a farm, I absolutely would have loved to, but unfortunately I am not rich so I did the next best thing by buying a house that was behind a farm. And again, I was very happy when the Park and Rec were able to secure the portion that happens to be behind my house. If I wanted a park or playground behind my house, I would have bought one there, but I didn't. And amazingly, I'm not the only one who wasn't crazy about the noise level rising behind my home, all of my neighbors shared the same opinion. I just feel fortunate that the Park and Rec actually had the respect to ask our opinion before going forward with any plans.

And as for the area between Davisville and Jacksonville having a park, McDonald was it. There was a navy base between those neighborhoods and Munroe and Werner, and the government wasn't very fond of people who didn't belong on it to be there. I know because I grew up there. And if you didn't care, you certainly have quite an opinion about it, which is fine, but atleast have the facts right.

MW I have not put words in your mouth. The following are yours. "I think one of the problems with the tot lot, besides the vandalism and lack of access for the emergency services, was the noise level." I'm sincerely sorry if you thought I was attacking you. I'm really not. I'm simply stating my opinion that I do think it's sad that the goodness that could come out of a tot lot for the many young families in our neighborhood is something you can't see.
MW there will be vandals, noise in all aspects of life at one time or another but that doesn't mean it would happen in there. You are assuming the worse. I tend to see life as the cup half full not half empty. I believe it would have been a wonderful addition to our neighborhood.
I too think it's very nice that Park and WREC asked the neighbors opinions before going forward. I just wish they would have included all the neighbors in the area. I've spoken to many neighbors over the past week and it seems very strange that not one person I asked received notice about this park meeting.

Yes but even you had McDonald didn't you? The areas I mentioned are now open to those kids. What do the kids in this section have? There is nothing for kids!
What I said above is that that I don't care what it is as long as it's for the KIDS. A walking trail is not for kids..that would be for the adults.